The Hindu : Q & A : Murali Manohar Joshi

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Thursday, Apr 01, 2004

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National - Elections 2004

Q & A : Murali Manohar Joshi

'No party is an untouchable'

Architect of the Bharatiya Janata Party's post-poll alliances with Mayawati of the Bahujan Samaj Party, not once but thrice, the Human Resource Development Minister, Murli Manohar Joshi, does not rule out the possibility of the BJP wooing Ms. Mayawati, or even Mulayam Singh Yadav in a post-poll scenario. Once part of the BJP's `trimurti' leadership, he now ploughs a more lonely furrow. Neena Vyas talked to him about the election scene. Excerpts:

What is your assessment of the Lok Sabha election scene, especially in Uttar Pradesh, which accounts for 80 seats?

The election scene is quite clear. The NDA Government will be returned back to power. And in Uttar Pradesh, the major constituent of the NDA, which is the BJP, will increase its tally (of seats won) substantially. We will go up from [the] 29 seats won in 1999 (when U.P. included Uttaranchal).

Do you think the Kalyan Singh factor will help, or what other factors will be at work?

The most important factor is that [Prime Minister] Vajpayeeji comes from U.P. The people of the State will certainly support him again in such numbers that he gets stability. Kalyan Singh's return to the party has created an atmosphere of confidence among party workers, and also in the people. Now that Kalyan Singh is back, even if 80 per cent of the four per cent section of the people [the backward Lodh community] he leads vote for the BJP, it will mean a substantial increase in our strength. A three to four per cent swing will make a big difference.

Kalyan Singh had abused the BJP leadership and now he is singing their praises. Do you think all this does not matter to the people?

No. If Kalyan Singh had not expressed regrets in public it may have been different. But he has now said that he is like Vajpayeeji's son, and he is working sincerely. He did not demand any position in the party ... he returned unconditionally, ready to surrender himself to the discipline of the party ...

You played a major role in forging the previous three alliances with Mayawati. Do you see her party, the BSP, or Mulayam Singh Yadav's Samajwadi Party joining the NDA in the post-poll scenario?

One doesn't know what the composition of the new Lok Sabha will be like. One thing is certain; no single party will get a majority. There will be a coalition government. All will depend on the numbers [of seats the NDA wins]. The situation will be different from what it is now. Today some of the parties are in a competitive situation, after the elections it will be entirely different. The main aim will then be to give a stable government ... I am neither ruling out, nor ruling in, the possibility [of a tie-up with the BSP or the SP] ... I can only add that nobody is an untouchable [in politics].

To come back to U.P., how did the BJP actually manage to mess up its huge support base, from 58 MPs in 1998 to 29 in 1999?

We committed certain mistakes in the past. That story is over. Now there is a better understanding among State leaders. The other factor was that our popularity suffered; there was also the factor of electoral alliances and distribution of ticket. In the 1999 [pre-poll] alliance with Ajit Singh we won only those seats we already had, and lost a number of seats that we could have won had we not given them up in seat sharing. I would describe that alliance as a miscalculation on both sides ...

There is a perception, right or wrong, that your relations with Vajpayee and Advani are not exactly on an even keel ...

This is false. They [the relations] are exactly on an even keel. Mr. Vajpayee, Mr. Advani and many of us have our opinions on specific issues. We discuss, and when a final decision is taken, we all work together. For a number of years people have been saying that Mr. Vajpayee and Mr. Advani do not see eye to eye. Some will say that Mr. Advani and I do not see eye to eye. All these are wrong perceptions. We take decisions under the leadership of Mr. Vajpayee ...

In your Ministry, you have furthered the RSS agenda in some ways — revising textbooks to reflect Hindutva, changing heads of various institutions to bring in those who are in line with your ideology and so on. Yet there is an impression that there is not much appreciation by the party. Is there a disconnect somewhere?

Let me say that whatever I have done has been in conformity with the National Education Policy adopted by Parliament and the recommendations of the Human Resource Development Ministry's standing committee chaired by the late S.B. Chavan. If it appears to some people that there was an RSS agenda, I can't comment on that. If there are certain things that the RSS has been saying and are also in the government policy, what is wrong with implementing those? I admit that my vision of the nation's prosperity and progress has been shaped by the RSS. But whatever I have implemented, it has been done within the parameters of government policy.

Finally, after the election results are out, will the BJP be slightly bigger in relation to its allies, or smaller?

All [the] NDA partners will grow; there will be an overall growth of the NDA, including BJP. Some may grow more, some less...

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